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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> Brewing Forum --> Brewing Discussion --> Priming Sugar DME vs Corn Sugar

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beerguyfromri
Warwick, RI
18 Posts


Hi All,

    I was asked a while back about the results of using DME vs Corn Sugar for a priming sugar. So I decided to do a little experiment and made a 5 gal. batch of American Brown Ale, split it in two used DME for a priming sugar in one and Corn sugar in the other and ended up with interesting results. DME had large head bubbles and very low retention where the corn sugar had finer bubbles and a much longer lasting head retention, see photos. What are your thoughts on this, Cheers










Posted 34 days ago.

vinpaysdoc
Charter Member
High Point, NC
321 Posts


They certainly appear different. I'd like to see them in identical glasses and make sure they were washed/rinsed in the same manner. 

It's kind of surprising because I think the type of sugar used just provides enough substrate for the yeast to produce the CO2 for carbonation. The actual head is caused by the proteins/hops already in the beers. I wouldn't think the small amount of priming sugar would make a significant difference.








Posted 34 days ago.

beerguyfromri
Warwick, RI
18 Posts


I used the proper amounts for the style. 2.08oz. of corn sugar in one and 2.77oz. of DME in the other.




Posted 34 days ago.

zgreenside
Nowhere
34 Posts


It's possible it does have something to do with it, but what I'm not sure. In beersmith, if you go to chose what you're priming with, here's what it tells you:

primingsugar
This is "Effectiveness compared to Corn Sugar" it says, so if you're going to use DME, it is only 65% as effective as Corn sugar. It looks like you added more DME than Corn Sugar, but maybe not quite enough (not entirely sure). Again though, I don't know that is necessarily what is affecting it...it could be that the glasses are slightly different, or that the one glass wasn't rinsed as thoroughly, not entirely sure.

Interesting results for sure though!




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


The effectiveness part is talking about fermentability.  If you use corn sugar as the baseline, you'll see that table sugar is more effective - this is due to the lower moisture content in table sugar.  Otherwise, the two behave the same, as both ferment away 100%, leaving nothing but CO2 and alcohol.

DME, on the other hand, leaves behind unfermentables.  This is why it takes more to get the same level of carbonation.  As for the difference in the head, my guess would be that, given more time (and assuming you used the proper equivalents of both sugars so as to end up with the same carbonation level), the DME beer would have ever so slightly more mouthfeel, but little else different.  However, I suppose that it's possible the two could differ slightly... but really, head formation and retention is far more about your grain bill than your priming sugar.

Source of knowledge: did tons of research to write the priming sugar calculator on this site.




Posted 34 days ago.

beerguyfromri
Warwick, RI
18 Posts


I used the proper amounts for the style. 2.08oz. of corn sugar in one and 2.77oz. of DME in the other.



Posted 34 days ago.

zgreenside
Nowhere
34 Posts


Ah very nice, TIL!

I figured the difference would likely only be effectiveness and that it shouldn't affect anything else, but wasn't sure.

I'm assuming then that if the difference in sugar is not the cause, then it must be the glass it was poured in, whether it was the shape or soap residue, both of which will affect the head retention. 

I pulled this from brewwiki: The shape of the glass is also a determining factor in both head formation and head retention. A tall narrow glass enhances the formation and retention of the head, while short wide glasses do not. This is the reason many Bavarian wheat beers and Pilsners are served in tall narrow glasses. Use the proper glass for the style of beer you are pouring to enhance the overall presentation.






Posted 34 days ago.

AgedAardvark
SLC, UT
53 Posts


>I used the proper amounts for the style. 2.08oz. of corn sugar in one and 2.77oz. of DME in the other.

<Disclaimer:  I'm better at math than I am at home brewing.>

According to the chart from BeerSmith that zgreenside posted, those are not equal amounts.  If I'm reading it correctly, DME*.65 = Equivalent amount of corn sugar.  2.77*.65 = 1.8... this is somewhat less than the 2.08oz of corn sugar you added.  If the chart is to be trusted, the algebra works like this:  

Let x = the amount of DME to add:
2.08 = .65x
2.08/.65 = x 

x = 3.2oz of DME for an equivalent effect.  

What do you think, Beerguy?  Where did you get the amounts you've listed here?

Edit:  I'm still chewing on what HBDad said... does that wipe out my analysis?




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by AgedAardvark

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I haven't run this through the priming sugar calculator here on the site (under utilities).  I wonder what it has to say?



Posted 34 days ago.

AgedAardvark
SLC, UT
53 Posts


Hey, Dad, I ran some quick numbers in the calculator.  

2.3 volumes 
60 degrees (what's this supposed to be?  Bottle conditioning temperature or service temperature?)
2.5g into bottles

Results for corn sugar:  1.78

Results for DME:  2.37

1.78/2.37 = about 75% as efficient as corn sugar.  This deviates from what zgreen's chart says.  What do you think?

Edit:  RhodeIsland's numbers have the same ratio as what the bottle carb calculator says.




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by AgedAardvark

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


The temperature is max temperature the beer reached post fermentation.  This has to do with how much residual CO2 is in solution.  The calculator page goes into some detail on this.

According to the data used in the calculator, it takes 1.3324 grams of DME to yield the same amount of CO2 as 1 gram of corn sugar.  I am extremely confident in the accuracy of this.



Posted 34 days ago.

AgedAardvark
SLC, UT
53 Posts


>1.3324 grams of DME to yield the same amount of CO2 as 1 gram of corn sugar.

1/1.33 ~= .75 -> BeerGuyfromRI's volumes are right according you your ratio.

>I am extremely confident in the accuracy of this.

I've just double checked zgreenside's chart in BeerSmith, and mine is the same (I was wondering if there were local settings that might have wobbled in his copy).  the ratio of corn sugar/DME that they're using is .65, not .75.  Interesting.  I'd be interested to know some background on how you got your ratio.  




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


A lot of homework.  I know that my numbers line up exactly with what Northern Brewer's calc comes up with, at least on the common sugars.



Posted 34 days ago.

AgedAardvark
SLC, UT
53 Posts


It's a discrepancy, for sure.  Probably pretty small-ball stuff, though.  Not enough to give you flat beer or bottle bombs one way or the other.  I wonder if there's a test for quantity of CO2 in solution in a beer.

Edit:  Do I have this right?  If you're right and BS2 is wrong then they're overcarbing their bottles a little bit, and if BS2 is right and you and Northern are wrong then you're undercarbing yours?  When using DME.




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by AgedAardvark

beerguyfromri
Warwick, RI
18 Posts


The amount are equal to the style for proper carbonation. the amounts
are different but with using two different priming sugars I I achieved
the same carbonation levels, if that makes it a little clearer I can see
how I made it more confusing than it is.



Posted 34 days ago.

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