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testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


OK, I haven't really had time to comment on this stuff in the email chain, but here goes, this is going to be really blunt, and possibly come across as rude, but I mean it strictly as constructive criticism and suggestion.

1. The forum structure is a bit of a jumbled mess. There are way too many places to check, the forum directory tree is just too big. There should be like 3-4 forums max. Maybe just separated by skill level. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't use HBT, because to get to anything interesting I have to follow links all over the site, and navigate 3 levels down to some esoteric forum that maybe people use or maybe not. My suggestion would probably just be 1. Amarteur hour 2. Intermidiate Idiots 3. Advanced A-holes 4. Site Issues 5. Anything goes - politics, spam, black hole, etc. Shoot, maybe even simpler than that until things get unruly. 1. Homebrewing 2. Site stuff 3. Anything goes.

2. The look of the site. The whole thing kind of has no style. It's very utilitarian, but sometimes a little eye candy makes things more usable because they are pleasing to the eye. Maybe just update the font to a more web-friendly font instead of a print friendly font and the colors to something a little more modern. Even just picking a color palette from on the myriad available online would probably be fine. 5 minutes worth of css work might make the whole site more appealing and therefore user friendly. It would also symbolize a change to the site from just a blog to a full fledged homebrewing resource for the public launch.

3. Usability features. quick reply, quick quote, buttons like that, editable wiki posts in each thread ala slickdeals...These are some of the advancements that commercial forum software has that this one doesn't...I think to be relevant this site will need these sorts of things. Also, auto-formatting of lists like this one. Not happening here. Happens automatically on reddit.

4. Most of our userbase will be coming from reddit, at least initially, so the overall feel of the site being more traditional forum as opposed to upvote/downvote comments isn't as appealing as I'd like to see. The idea that the best post gets upvoted to the top is one of the reasons /r/homebrewing is/was successful, it is easy to identify good advice from bad by the votes, and when you ventured into a thread you could find the best answer right at the top. In an HBT thread, the best answer might be on the 38th page, and finding it might be nearly impossible. Something to remedy that situation is a must for this platform IMO.

5. Mobile. Reddit and HBT have easy to use mobile solutions. Without that, I wouldn't use either. Same goes here I think.




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by testingapril

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Dan, thanks for your invaluable feedback.  Know that I value your opinion, which is why you were invited to the group in the first place.  I love the fact that you are blunt and to the point. 

Let me address your issues one by one.

1. I respectfully disagree.  I get the appear to the reddit free for all; I'm not trying to be reddit.  The idea has always been to have a forum.

I feel like, once you get used to visiting the forums, you'll probably lock onto one or two categories (probably brewing discussion and recipe discussion), and spend the lion's share of your time in them. 

We've talked about this a lot, and the idea is that we want the "is it infected", and "here is the photo of my first beer" type stuff relegated to its own area that you'll check if you are interested in it... but that won't get  in the way of normal brewing discussion.

The other stuff?  Again, we get a place to shoot the breeze, to discuss actual site problems and feature requests, etc - without getting in the way of brewing discussion. 


2. I agree 100%.  We did some dramatic styling updates yesterday that took us a long way from where we were, but I would be the first to agree that we have further to go.  There were some pretty sweeping font changes done, for one, to make the site more readable, but I'm totally open to additional changes - note that I've been badgering the list for suggestions, but until this post, literally only one other person has had any input.


3. Already added quick reply, we'll get the quote up.   Yesterday, the request was made for auto-linkifying in posts, and I got that up.  I will continue to make updates until we're happy - the beauty of custom software is that we can add whatever features we want. 

Understand, I'm not considering this to be a finished product.  You may or may not realize it, but I have continued to update and add functionality to other parts of the site (recipe database, various calculators) - partly based on what I see partly based on user feedback.  I will continue to do so.


4. See #1.  I understand where you are coming from, but don't pretend that reddit doesn't have its own major failings - namely that quality content is constantly falling into the void, where it is excessively difficult to ever find again. 

I will be adding search functionality to the forums.  I have toyed with the idea of a voting/favoriting system to help distinguish exceptional content, but I'm still working out how that might work. 


5.  Agreed and understood.  This relates back to #2.  You may have seen my comments to the list on the subject.  Right now, I'll looking to figure out the best way to make the site mobile friendly.  We will get there, I promise.




Posted 34 days ago.

testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


I swear the font has already changed from what it was when I wrote this post.




Posted 34 days ago.

testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


Realize that I'm not advocating mimicking reddit. But also realize that I am criticizing the decision to mimic HBT. Right now, that's what this site is, a poor replication of HBT.

There are no pro's from reddit included in the site, and the cons of HBT, aside from the moderating staff, are in full force.

I'm trying to say that if this is going to be a destination site, it needs to have differentiating factors, it needs to differentiate itself from reddit, but it also needs to differentiate itself from every other homebrew forum on the planet. They are all basically the same, and they all basically suck. HBT sucks slightly less because of the enormous quantity of knowledge stored there, so it's the best comparison.




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I get where you are coming from, I do.

So what will make this site different? 

I'm banking on the fact that it being run by actual brewers will go a long way toward that.  That e don't have the same policies as HBT (the ay they've hated external links, they way they police their forums, etc). That it will be faster than HBT.  That we will have so many more useful features - the various utilities and such, the recipe database that will be far superior to HBT, and so on.  The fact that members get blog here, if they choose.

For the forum itself?  A forum is a forum is a forum.  There may be minor differences between them, but you're right - the medium is what it is. 

I see this site as being a community, not just a message board.  THAT will be what makes it different. 

Will that be enough for the average user?  Will that be enough for testingapril?  Time will tell, I suppose.




Posted 34 days ago.

testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


"I feel like, once you get used to visiting the forums, you'll probably
lock onto one or two categories (probably brewing discussion and recipe
discussion), and spend the lion's share of your time in them."

I won't. That's why I don't visit HBT. I like to help people with the same brewing issues I've encountered all over the spectrum. I like talking about carbonation, electric brewing, recipe creation, sour beers, I love deep discussions on virtually any homebrewing topic. Of the 5 current brewing sub-headings, I am genuinely interested in 4 of them.

I actually like looking at "is it infected" posts. Most of the time the answers are obvious, but sometimes it's hard to tell, even with a good pic, and helping a noob (or a certain site admin) out with tracking down and infection is really rewarding.

"what will make this site different? 

I'm banking on the fact that it being run by actual brewers will go a long way toward that"

Again, it won't. There are plenty of sites run by brewers. Heck, the AHA forum has some of the best brewers on the planet commenting regularly. Guess how often I go there? Never. I can't remember the name of the forum, but there's one that's colored green all over that was created as a counter to HBT and "run by brewers" and it has some decent info, but overall it sucks because the traditional forum model sucks. The "run by brewing" thing isn't enough to get over the hump.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the reddit model is more appealing than the traditional forum model, which is why I am so active there and not so active elsewhere. I think the core group here is outstanding, I've learned a ton from them, but as more and more folks are added to the herd, that appeal practically disappears.

We need to try to find things that will re-invent the wheel a bit. Attempting to hybridize the reddit approach with the forum approach is the best idea I've got.




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I'm certainly open to building a better mousetrap.  You guys continue to give great advice, and I plan to implement as much as I realistically can.

But do understand, this isn't reddit.  Hopefully, we can take some features of both models that we enjoy (the idea of a hybrid view, that contains posts from multiple categories - chosen by the user - is super appealing) ... but I rather doubt we'll ever be able to please everyone.






Posted 34 days ago.

testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


"I rather doubt we'll ever be able to please everyone."

You figure out how to do that and you'll need more than just a website!




Posted 34 days ago.

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