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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> General Forum --> Homebrewed Beer Reviews --> Old Ale (with Hickory) from Matt

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homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Last week, our own Matt Del Fiacco notified me that I was getting old ale from him.  I was stoked to try it, and when I found out it had been aged on hickory - a wood that I love for grilling, though had never tried in a beer - I was even more excited.  You see, Matt is especially known for two things - big, malty beers, and brewing with wood.  This beer would cover both bases.

I let the bottle chill for three full days before taking it out for forty-five minutes or so prior to pouring.  This would be my special 4th of July celebration beer, and I gave a pint glass an extra special salt scrub in preparation.  So, without further adieu, here is how I perceived this beer.



Bottle gives a nice hiss on opening.

Appearance: pours a murky mahogany into my pint glass, with almost two fingers of tan foam on top. I see some nice ruby highlights, but the cloudy beer is nigh opaque, even when held directly against a light. The head fades pretty quickly, leaving nothing but a thin ring behind. Lacing is nonexistent.

Aroma: rich, strong, caramel malt; molasses, complex fruity esters that remind me a bit of wine.  I pick up on some alcohol, here, though it is a complimentary note.  Hops are nonexistent.

Flavor: rich caramel, and nutty malt flavors dominate.  Tons of complexity here; I get molasses, I get breadiness, I get a variety of fruity esters (particularly something like apricot)... though these support the malt - they don't overwhelm it, even though they become more apparent as the beer warms in my glass.  The bitterness level keeps this sweet beer from being cloying, but I couldn't begin to guess as to which hops might have been used.  There is some alcohol warmth on the finish... and for that matter, a bit of almost sherry-like character, even a bit of tanginess at the end.  There is just a *lot* going on with this beer.  Finish is fairly sweet, though that alcohol perception helps to balance it.  

Mouthfeel: carbonation level is low, and the body is definitely one I'd describe as thick - even "chewy".  There is a touch of slickness to the mouthfeel, though it plays well with all that is going on, and it honestly evaporates on the finish.  This is definitely a sipper; I'd love to have something like this to curl up with on a cold winter's night.

Overall: this is one of the most enjoyable big beers I have had.  I enjoy sweeter beers, I enjoy caramel, I find a complex array of flavors to be enjoying - this beer has all of these in spades.  I couldn't say how much the hickory influenced the flavor, as I'm just not familiar enough with the flavors it imparts, but what is here really *works*.  This beer is thick, it is rich, it is... luxurious?  

Matt did a great job with this one.  This is a beer to be proud of.  The only dings I can give it are the cloudiness and the lack of head... and really, do these matter?  The beer is delicious, and I'm honored to have been allowed to try it.






Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Beer and wood are a nice combination I have not experimented with. It would be interesting if Matt could elaborate a bit on that theme,




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


You're too kind Olan, I'm pretty thrilled you enjoyed it! I'm totally with you that the appearance needs work. I'd like to lighten the beer a bit too, but that's secondary. I'm going to give it a longer cold crashing period to try and get it a bit clearer next time.

I also need to let it age longer. This one gallon batch was on hickory for a month, one week before the "full extraction" recommendation from black swan cooperage, and in my opinion it wasn't enough for a "wood-aged" beer.

So it needs some work, but I was really happy with the beer. I'm going to thin it a bit and deal with that "slick" quality, not sure where that may have come from, but I'm considering adding molasses or treacle sugar at high krausen.

Thanks for trying the beer man! I'm excited to have had the opportunity to share it, if any other tweaks that need to be made occur to you let me know!




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Ingoogni, im on mobile right now so I'll write a longer response when I get home!



Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


No need to rush, I'll just age a bit more.




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


So, as for the theme, I'm hoping that what I say answers your question but if not, let me know and I'll do my best to answer something more specific. 

Basically, wood is an awesome addition. Put all the historical style stuff aside, that isn't important here. Think of it like any other aspect of the recipe. Wood can be added in a wide variety of ways. It can provide a one-dimensional layer to a beer, or it can add layers of complexity on its own. Light beer, dark beer, weak beer, strong beer, wood fits it all. Oak, Mesquite, Hickory, Hard Maple (personal fan), Soft Maple, Honey, Apple, all of these woods act differently in a beer. They provide different flavors. This Old Ale Olan tried was on Hickory, but the exact beer was also split onto Sassafras, White Oak, and Hard Maple. 

Personally, I prefer honeycombs and cubes over chips, dust, or extract. I like to addittional layers that a medium toast can bring, though in my next RIS (a Christmas special!) I'm going to be using medium toast American Oak with a heavy char. 

Other than trying to invigorate you to use wood a bit, I'm not quite sure how to answer. I could try to answer something specific. 

Here is a PDF of my wood primer. That's version one, and version two will be released as I make the blog posts updating it. Next up is char versus toast! But yeah, feel free to ask anything specific! Unless it's "how do I scale a barrel with paraffin wax" or "why aren't the surface area of cubes equal to the surface area of a barrel for the same amount of beer?" because those are long answers. But if you're curious I'll tell you.




Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Thanks Matt, that is what I need to get started.

My experiences with wood so far:

Historical IPA on oak barrel. Due to not paying attention by as well my supplier as by me I got a brand new barrel where I expected a used one. I had used barrels from them before where I age my sours in.  The beer has aged for a year on fresh oak and it is very oaky, like drinking oak splinters. What works exceptionally well is drink the beer warm, just as you would with red wine, the other tastes overpower the tannins. Although too much, I still like it.

There is a small beer 50/50 wheat/pale with a Belgian yeast and a bit more than usual of the new German hops that I lager on very small toasted Cherry chips. 4g/l for two weeks. It adds some tannins and quite some fruityness that plays very well with hops.

Guess it's time to do a 15-way split batch and try everything in my stock of smoking woods.




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


>Guess it's time to do a 15-way split batch and try everything in my stock of smoking woods.


Yess do it! I love splitting batches between wood, I've tried about 12 varieties so far and I'm working on the write-up. 




Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


First I still have to do my 15-way split with all possible variations of blends of four dry yeasts, collecting bottels for that.

Are there poisonous woods, never thought about it? I know one shouldn't use Elderberry wood for smoking, the smoke gives terrible headaches.





Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I know that purple heart sawdust can be very dangerous to breathe; I doubt you would want to ingest it.  I expect there are other varieties that are probably not food safe.



Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


I go into it a little bit in that packet, but in general, you should only be using hard woods. Soft woods are a bit more resinous and can be toxic. You also shouldn't be using any wood that has been treated with chemicals, or would that you're unsure of its origins. Rule of thumb, any wood you buy for smoking is most likely fine (I've called a lot of places, none of them treat their wood, but it doesn't hurt to double check). Also, any wood you've grown yourself, but even then make sure you're not in a chemical waste runoff area.



Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Googeling a bit on it there is not a lot of information, most is for woodworkers and their contact with sawdust and skin contact with "saps" and indeed resins. Even on smoking woods there is little on toxicity other than smoke it self.

Most of my smoking woods I get from private gardens.




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Yeah, I had to make a lot of phone calls. The third version of the primer will hopefully have way more concrete information in it in regards to the toxicity of certain woods and brands, sources and all!

Private gardens are totally fine, especially if people are eating other fruits/vegetables from them without any sort of issue. Preferably they wouldn't use toxic pesticides (which I imagine could be yeast inhibitors), and wouldn't be (or have been depending on the age of the tree) near any sort of chemical run-off, which can be way harder to follow up on.




Posted 34 days ago.

chino_brews
Charter Member
Eden Prairie, MN
301 Posts


OK, so I'm back from Nashville and finally got a chance to try Matty's Old Ale. This one aged on white oak honeycombs, per his note.

It's been in the fridge, lying on the side (hope it's not bottle conditioned), and a little on the cold side (45°F) so I'm planning to pour it in a tulip glass and let it come to temp. Holy schnikey! It's a gusher. Old Ale everywhere! Well at least the time it takes me to take down the kitchen window screen and clean that and the window, and all of the nooks and crannies, will give . Of course my wife walks in right then.

I can get right to the aroma, because it smells like freshly-sawn oak, vanilla, and dark raisins. Everywhere in my kitchen.

OK, all cleaned up. So here goes:

A: Fill level high. Bottle gushed when opened. Pours a murky mahogany. 1/2" head lasted a minute or two. Should be clearer and lacks ruby highlights that are permitted in style. Murkiness could be due to the gusher.

S: Besides the aforementioned aroma, which has dissipated by the time I return to the glass, I'm getting some complex malt flavors, more raisin or perhaps fruitcake, light toffee aroma, and some slight woody notes (sawn wood). The wood is fairly aggressive and complementary. No discernable hop aroma.

T: Foretaste is challah or zwieback and dark malt, dried fruit, and a little carbonic. Getting almost cherry-like notes in the middle taste and the first hints of alcohol, along with  - the middle doesn't last long. Finish has alcohol-related bitterness that is unbalanced, easing into light malt sweetness that lingers and then oak becomes apparent again. No diacetyl. No oxidized character, which is not required, but permitted per style.

M: Even after waiting, the carbonation is a little prickly; not to style. Body is medium. Medium warming alcohol. Medium to medium-low astringency in finish. Also getting some woody, almost betel nut quality, that tightens the throat and chest.

O: I like the beer. I'm pretty sure I'd have another one. Not sure I'd pay for it without some small tweaks. The most prominent issue is that the alcohol character is quite bitter, and not hidden or balanced by malt or sweetness -- it dominates the second half of the taste -- I wonder if that is due to over-oaking. The aroma is promising, but I feel like the flavor doesn't deliver on that promise. The wood character was prominent and nice, and I think is a good combo with the malt bill. I would like to see the taste follow the aroma, or at least live up to the promise of the aroma. It could use a little more maltiness and more sweetness to balance the prominent bitterness of the alcohol -- or maybe more age to allow EtOH to oxidize. More sweetness would be to style. Nice job on getting the fruitiness from the fementation and the malts, and good choice on oaking and exposure.

So with that out of the way, what is it about bottled beers and how they travel?

I'm also interested in the recipe.

Sorry for being tough -- you asked me to be "brutal".




Posted 34 days ago.

testingapril
Charter Member
Atlanta, GA
595 Posts


Sounds like it just needs some age.

Or maybe the gusher is indicative of infection and that's causing some awkward bitterness or flavor.




Posted 34 days ago.

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