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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> Brewing Forum --> Recipe Discussion --> Czech Pilsner help!

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Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Hey guys! This is my latest Czech Pilsner recipe, based off of my original and refined from some research and tasting notes. Let me know what you think! Interested in all opinions. 

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.010
IBUs: 40

Grains
95% Floor Malted Bo Pils Malt (Also would like opinions on doing a 50/50 split with Pilsner and 2-row)

5% Carapils

Hops
Saaz @ FHW (23 IBUs)
Saaz @ 30 (10 IBUs)
Saaz @ 15 (7 IBUs)
Saaz @ 0 

Mash
Protein rest at 126°F for 20 minutes 
Sacc. rest at 151°F for 60 minutes 
Mash out at 168°F


Thoughts?




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I'm thinking it looks good.  How much have you changed? Why?



Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Here is a short list of changes from the original:

Grains
Removed the acid malt entirely, I'll control the mash pH with salts and use Bru'N water to hit my target profile, plus I'm not sold it did too much. The possible 50/50 split with 2-row is from Designing Great Beers and from the Bohemian Pilsner article in BYO, it looks like a lot of NHC recipes do it. I'd like to stay pretty traditional, which is why I'm considering not making that change, but I'd like feedback on it. 

Hops
I lowered the FWH hop and added the 30 and 15 minutes addittions. This is also a result of some schedules from the article and from Designing Great Beers, but I also noticed a lack of spiciness in my beer that I wanted to add, so I think the flavor addition is going to help with that. 

Everything else is the same for the most part, hopefully I actually hit my decoction mash temperatures!




Posted 34 days ago.

uberg33k
Charter Member
The Internet
314 Posts


The Kolbach Index is high enough on Floor Malted BoPils that you don't need a protein rest.  It might hurt more than it helps.  I'm also a little iffy on a single 151 rest.  Every pils I see made traditionally has a rest in the high 140's and then in the high 150's/low 160's.  If you did a short beta rest (~20 min), then raise up to the alpha for the balance, you shouldn't need any carapils.  So maybe flip the bill to something like 95-97% Bo Pils and 3-5% CaraBohemian to up the perception of malt to balance the hops.



Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


I'm super traditional, myself; I wouldn't do the 50/50 split.  But that's me.

I think uberg makes sense on those rest temps.



Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Awesome, fantastic advice. Thanks!

And yeah Olan, I landed on not splitting the base malt. It is mostly for a traditional warm feeling, but I also want to try and keep the grain bill incredibly simple and let the process get the complexity I'm looking for




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


You've heard me rave about Hofbrau's Oktoberfest, but it applies to pretty much any quality German lager - especially to those who stick to traditional methods of brewing.

The grain bill is almost always insanely simple, whereas the process is often quite complex.  In the end, these are some of the finest beers in the world, so the general ideas they use must not be that crazy.



Posted 34 days ago.

KidMoxie
Charter Member
San Elijo Hills, CA
405 Posts


I can tell you right now that your FG is too low, shoot for 1.014 or so if you want a "drier" bohemian pils, but you can go up to 1.016 or so as well. With that in mind, if you want to keep the ~5.25% ABV bump your OG up to 1.054.

My understanding is that the Floor Malted Bo Pils Malt is pretty undermodified, so you might need to do a decoction. I've never used it though so someone more experienced than me should chime in :)

50/50 pils, 2-row? Come on man, I think you already knew the answer when you asked that.

Also, time for some real talk: if you're trying to go super-authentic you're going to need super-soft water. We're talking ions in the teens on the high end. There's no way salts are going to keep your pH down. Either you're going to need to do an acid rest, add some acid malt, or add food-grade acid (lactic or phosphoric) to get the right pH.




Posted 34 days ago.

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


I'm not tied to the ABV, I'll aim for the 1.014-1.016 range, awesome advice. 

Absolutely doing a decoction, I'm not sold that melanoidin malt is exactly the same and/or better, despite some anecdotal experiences I've heard. Some people swear there is a character to decoction that you don't pick up until you know what it is, but once you recognize it you know if it is there. Plus, I did a decoction last time and it worked out well. 

I know :( I was reading Designing Great Beers and the article in BYO and I was all "wow, a lot of people are doing this. Maybe I should do it?" But nah, straight up Bo Pils. 

And yeah, super soft water, I'm going to build the profile in Bru'N Water today. Lactic acid it is! Mostly because I have some on hand. 

So, if I'm looking at advice from you and UberG33k, I'm looking at something like:

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.014
IBUs: 40

Grains
100% Floor Malted Bo Pils


Hops
Saaz @ FHW (23 IBUs)
Saaz @ 30 (10 IBUs)
Saaz @ 15 (7 IBUs)
Saaz @ 0 

Mash
20 minute beta-rest @ about 110F
1 hour decoction @ 148F
1 hour decoction @ 158F

How does the mash schedule look? Any advice on a better decoction schedule?




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by Matt

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Call me a big believer in decoctions.  That said, I don't think you are going to want to decoct anywhere near an hour for each step, not on a pils.  You don't need THAT high of a melanoiden contribution, and you're going to end up noticeably darker than you want.  I'd say not more than 20 minutes per.



Posted 34 days ago.

uberg33k
Charter Member
The Internet
314 Posts


I think the hour at 148 is too long. That'll leave you thin. 20 mins tops. You can hold at 158 until you clear a starch test, but I'm with Olan, don't actually boil a rest for 60 mins.



Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by uberg33k

Matt
Charter Member
Normal, IL
341 Posts


Fantastic, thanks guys! Really looking forward to this



Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Agree with uberg.  I'd boil 20 minutes, add the decoction back to the main mash, and give that the hour (or whatever) for conversion.

Note that if you go for an hour at 148, you'll have broken down almost anything there is to break down, you won't get many of those longer mouthfeel starches.  Go shorter on the low temp rest (say, 15-20 minutes), then let the long rest go for as long as you like.





Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Mash in in your copper, not your mashtun, rest for 20 min (enzyme extraction).
Pull the thin mash from above the grain and put it in the mashtun (this is generally easier than pulling a thick mash).
Heat the thick mash to 70°C, hold for 20 min, then boil for 10-15 min (for a dark beer 20-30 min)
Add all to mashtun, rest for 20-30 min (63°C).
Pull a thick mash and add to copper, heat, hold, boil, add back and rest for 20-30 min (73  °C). Make sure you have a good iodine test before going to the next step.
Pull a thin mash and boil, add back = mash out.

For a two step, same procedure but mash in at 63°C and pull one thick and one thin mash for decoction.

You can also keep some of the cold thin enzyme rich wort from the mash in separate and add it to the 73°C wort 5-10 min before you pull the thin mash for mashout.




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by ingoogni

brewcrewkevin
Charter Member
Appleton, WI
66 Posts


Okay... just getting caught up on  this. I have not decocted yet and I really need to try it one of  these days. Had a 3.5 hour brewday on Friday, so I think I'm ready for it!

So Olan/Gary- what does this mean exactly? Just to summarize for my own understanding, for a super-simple decoction:

* Mash in at 148
* Collect a small portion right away and bring to boil for 20 mins
* Add in to bring up to 158F
* Rest 1 hour or until starch test shows conversion

Sound about right? (I'm not including protein rest here)






Posted 34 days ago.

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