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Some of you know that I've convinced myself that water chemistry was directly responsible for an "awkward" flavor in my super pale beers. Specifically I feel like I narrowed it down to pH by brewing a pilsner with my Pilsn-esque water and only adding acid and that beer did not have the awkward flavor.
Well, throw a new wrench in the gears.
So one of the many super pale beers I brewed that had that awkward flavor had a malt bill of 100% briess pale ale malt, which is what HarkJohnny uses in that beer. He doesn't adjust his water or measure pH. I threw that bill in brewersfriend and put in a Cincinatti water profile and it came up with pH 5.74. If I put my water profile in there I get pH 5.7. HarkJohnny's beer won a BOS, which I seriously doubt any of my awkward flavor beers would have done, even if they were perfect recipes, etc. That awkward flavor, although hard to taste for a lot of people (I seem to be the only one of my family or friends who can taste it), surely would knock any of my beers out of contention for BOS.
Anyone have ideas how to reconcile these competing ideas? Maybe the Ardennes yeast covers up that flavor, or otherwise drops pH farther/lower than the yeasts I was using? Perhaps it's an either/or thing? Minerals will kill that awkward flavor OR lower pH will kill the awkward flavor?
I feel like some 1 gallon test batches of this beer with some varying minerals and pH levels might be in order. I really want to try this recipe, it's so intriguing with it's simplicity, but apparent complexity and harmony of flavors.
PS. I know describing this flavor simply as 'awkward' isn't very helpful, but I honestly don't know how to describe it. It's kind of in the malt profile a bit, like mishroomy or grainy. Maybe husk-y? Mainly in the finish. Just something throwing the balance and finish off ever so slightly. Kind of lingers in the aftertaste too.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
I'm beginning to think now that maybe I was extracting an extremely small amount of tannin from the grain with a high pH sparge. HarkJohnny's efficiency is low for that amount of grain, so I wonder if he's doing no sparge and that kept him from getting any tannin extraction. I've asked, so interested to hear what he says.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
In my experience I sometimes get flat flavour expression in beers with too high pH, aka too much residual alkalinity. Most of the brewing water calculators are garbage at predicting mash pH because all they do is take into account malt colour and select base/crystal/roast. Wheat malt, flaked oats, etc... is entered as a base malt, pilsner and 2 row are both entered as 2L-base even though they are different cultivars of barley. I discussed this with John Palmer when he was signing my book at NHC and he agreed that software does a poor job of predicting pH and the best way to do it is the brew the same beer multiple times and measure pH throughout until you understand how much a certain grain bill acidifies the mash on it's own, the fine tune with acid.
For example I've found that when I use G&P 2 Row (local domestic) my mash pH can be as much as 0.3-0.5 pH high compared to the predicted number by Bru'n Water. However, when I use Munton's Pearl the measured value is within 0.1 pH of the predicted. I imagine this varies quite a bit depending on base malt. I also find Pilsner to be much higher than predicted, usually 0.2-0.4 pH high.
Posted 34 days ago.
For most of my pale ales (especially when i do no sparge) ive been adding a bit of acid malt as a guess, but its been just that....a guess.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
What color were the beers?
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
I do the same thing as Ray. Ro water and build a profile with salts, after five batches I stopped checking pH. Should probably start again jut to verify.
Posted 34 days ago.
Posted 34 days ago.
It's not difficult to calibrate my meter. It's a pain. Calibration solution is expensive.
Posted 34 days ago.