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What is the general opinion on the 2015 guidelines? I'm not a fan right now, but I think it's a 'nobody likes change' kind of thing. Im glad that the additional styles are added, I guess I'm not a fan of the rearranging and reclassifying of a lot of the styles.
Posted 34 days ago.
I don't mind them.
My only beef is the way things are organized by sales and region, rather than style. So stouts and iPas and barleywines, all simair, end up in different categories. I think of the styles more radially like they were before, rather than hierarchical. Plus, I hate that RIS is in the American category, and then all the style talks about is how English it can be.
Overall though I think there are a lot of good affordances and descriptions that benefit the style guide overall
Posted 34 days ago.
It's a mixed bag for me. I like how they've included some missing stuff. I like some decisions (splitting Oktoberfest). Some others - splitting IPAs like they did - just don't make sense to me.
Posted 34 days ago.
I think it's fine, they make a bit more sense in terms of strength and focus (e.g. malt/hops/etc). Let's face it: how many RIS were the English making compared to the number Americans make? It's like how IPA doesn't mean India or Pale anymore, rather just a strong, hop-forward ale.
Posted 34 days ago.
Yeah, but American, English, and Imperial IPAs are all still a "thing" - just in different categories.
Posted 34 days ago.
Yeah, 'cause they're split amongst strength and focus: American - hops, English - malt, Imperial - strength.
Posted 34 days ago.
I guess that "don't make sense" isn't fair - but I don't fully agree with it.
Then again, I'm a crotchety old man already.
Posted 34 days ago.
Some categories make sense, some don't....I agree it is a mixed bag of sorts. But like the other guidelines, I think we will learn to roll with them.
How about the Porter's getting split WAY up?
Posted 34 days ago.
Yeah I understand where you're coming from KidMoxie, but I don't think that the division by regional focus is a good thing overall. Before there were styles, and sub atyles. The umbrella definition, with regional focus. Now the region is that primary focus, so in my mind it seems like the "style" matters less than where the beer is made and sold.
So, for RIS, yeah we make a lot in America and we do it differently. But it isn't an American exclusive by any means, and putting it in the American category seems to be saying its a distinctly American beer, which it isn't.
Posted 34 days ago.
My gripe about them this particular day is that tomorrow I want to enter a local contest with two different beers - helles and a maibock. Two different categories in the old guide, same in the new, just different subs. Now they'll sort of compete with each other. In all honesty though, I suppose they are similar...
Posted 34 days ago.
I agree with Matt. I like the idea of overall style, subtle differences between them rather than regional groups.
Posted 34 days ago.
It's a judges thing with a judges order. You only have to look at it when you participate, the real world is rather different.
The good thing is that the descriptions of many beers have been improved a lot.
Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by ingoogni
Yeah, the reorganization of the styles is strictly for judging purposes. They wanted to make it easier for comps to group beers into like categories so the flights will make sense.
Posted 34 days ago.
I can understand that from a palate perspective, but I'm just not seeing it. If you're judging Barleywine and you say "this is a great Barleywine", chances are you're not saying "this is great compared to a IIPA!". You're saying this is great against other Barleywines.
Like Ingooni said though, real world is different and if the guidelines help judges then that's great
Like Ingooni said though, real world is different and if the guidelines help judges then that's great
Posted 34 days ago.
But that's the thing, the guidelines are for competition purposes first and foremost. Allow me to quote from the 2015 guidelines introduction:
"The larger categories are arbitrary groupings of beer, mead, or cider styles, usually with similar characteristics but some subcategories are not necessarily related to others within the same category. The purpose of the structure within the BJCP Style Guidelines is to group styles of beer, mead and cider to facilitate judging during competitions; do not attempt to derive additional meaning from these groupings. No historical or geographic association is implied.
So American Strong Ale is comprised of Hoppy high ABV beers so that if you do have to taste those in the same flight, you're not judging them against each other, but your palate is not burned out on IIPA and then you get a session IPA right behind it. All of those beers are high ABV and relatively bitter and/or hop focuses. They are grouped together so they can be judged together, and for no other particular purpose."The larger categories are arbitrary groupings of beer, mead, or cider styles, usually with similar characteristics but some subcategories are not necessarily related to others within the same category. The purpose of the structure within the BJCP Style Guidelines is to group styles of beer, mead and cider to facilitate judging during competitions; do not attempt to derive additional meaning from these groupings. No historical or geographic association is implied.
Posted 34 days ago.