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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> Brewing Forum --> Brewing Discussion --> Gelatin - Looks marvelous, but, at a price?

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vinpaysdoc
Charter Member
High Point, NC
321 Posts


First, I'm biased to believe that filtering and/or fining takes flavor compounds out of wine. Years of reading The Wine Advocate have drilled that into my brain.

I've tried gelatin in the past two beers I've made, a Pale and an IPA. Both are crystal clear. The Pale is a recipe I've done multiple times. The IPA is Marshall's 'Lil Slack IPA (with the hop schedule adulterated) and it was my first time brewing it. Both beers are good. The Pale seems to have less malt flavor and hops presence. The IPA is not fully carbonated yet, but, the malt does not seem as big as I'd expect.

So, what has your experience been with gelatin? Everybody talks about the positives, but, is there a downside we don't talk about? If so, how do you make up for the flavor loss in order to have clear beer? Am I just biased to believe that and nobody else finds a loss of flavor?

Please discuss and educate me.


Also, Marshall, exBeeriment? Nevermind, I read the whole thing. I thought you presented them in glass. Ooops. Still, I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.




Posted 34 days ago.
Edited 34 days ago by vinpaysdoc

mchrispen
Bastrop, TX
485 Posts


I think your observation is consistent with my findings... and I have been experimenting with several fining products. All of them seem to strip something from the beer - but generally, in my experience, dramatically shorten maturation time. That is, for me, the effect of extended lagering for 6-8 weeks is pulled forward to 1-2 weeks. The resulting beer is star bright (usually) and I have learned to compensate the hopping schedule to accommodate. I have not seen malt flavors nor body affected, but I generally do not fine darker beers.

Remember that suspended particles in the beer have both + and - charges. So a complete solution should deal with both particle charges. Kettle finings increase the effect fermenter finings.

1. Gelatin is the cheapest to use and provides very nice results. Gelatin seems to react both electrically and with some physical mechanical process and pulls out some haze polyphenols as well as floccing yeast. It is likely to adsorb some of the residual hop oils as well - reducing flavor and aroma. Very effective. Not vegan nor vegatarian. Positive charge.
2. Isenglass is a traditional fining agent and still used in Real Ale cask aging. Isenglass has a very similar effect as gelatin, but is created from fish bladder. In my experience, this produces a brighter beer, but requires more time. It produces a tighter cake of yeast and other materials that floc. Also not vegan nor vegetarian. Positive charge.
3. Chitosan is a material made from shellfish shells and a popular polishing compound for wine. Not vegan nor vegetarian. Positive charge.
4. Kiesosol is a silicon dioxide material that facilitates clearing by behaving like tannin. When combined with Gelatin or Chitosan creates a dramatic and fast rate of clearing. Can be natural or artificially created. Negative charge.
5. SuperKleer is a commercial combination of chitosan and keisosol. This works a real charm and quickly. While I use this primarily for meads, it will clear a stubborn beer in a few days.
6. Polyclar is a PVCC material that is highly effective when dosed correctly. Similar in texture and consistency to gelatin, PVCC more specifically targets polyphenol (tannins) causing them to clump and fall out of suspension. PVCC doesn't seem to adsorb hop oils at the same rate as gelatin. PVCC is a plastic - which you need to decide if is appropriate in your beer, but will fully fall out of suspension. Positive charge.

While I still use gelatin (I bought a ton of knox), I have transitioned to either SuperKleer or PVCC and adjust my dry hopping rates slightly to accommodate (or dry hop post clarification). SuperKleer seems to be extremely effective in clearing sour/wild beers for me - and dropped a very hazy brett laden saison to starbright in a few days.

One final note: Remembering that 99% of these materials fall out of suspension - most do have a fairly nasty flavor or aroma. PVCC and gelatin have the least flavor components - something to remember when/if you sample during the clearing process.




Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Vinpaysdoc, I used gelatin for the first time in my Wandering Barbarian, and I was ecstatic with the result.  Maybe I had a little less hop character than I would have; next time, I might up the hops a little bit.  I do know that, before it took that turn, I had a fantastic, flavorful, aromatic beer... and the fact that it was almost crystal clear (despite a six ounce dry hop) was pretty darned cool.



Posted 34 days ago.

vinpaysdoc
Charter Member
High Point, NC
321 Posts


Matt,

Thanks for the thorough reply. I will probably continue to use gelatin for a while with the lighter colored beers. I may have to add to the hops a little to get the same effect. 

Thanks,
G




Posted 34 days ago.

mchrispen
Bastrop, TX
485 Posts


I have been adjusting my dry hops pre-gelatin by about 10%, but that is just a guestimate, and probably overkill. I have not been able to detect a lot of difference in small amounts in dry hopping. When dry hopping after fining, then I use a fairly normal and rounded number, like 1-2 ounces in a keg at serving temperatures...

The flavor thing is interesting to me - always believe in tasting something before putting it into my beer. While these all floc out almost completely, still worried that some flavor component MAY be transferred. I still have some Isenglass that I need to use - just not a fan of it, but it does work.

Gelatin seems to be the most cost effective solution, but doesn't do a lot to deal with biological-derived haze. Haven't yet tried kiesosol with gelatin - but that is supposedly as effective as SuperKleer... might be worth an experiment. I thought about doing a time lapse of a SuperKleer dose, but worry about UV light in the process. Maybe I need to yank a 1 gallon batch and give that a try - might be fun to watch.





Posted 34 days ago.

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