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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> General Forum --> Chitchat --> HBD on HBT...

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mchrispen
Bastrop, TX
485 Posts


Nice article Olan!




Posted 34 days ago.

blur_yo_face
Houston, Tx
161 Posts


I really enjoyed it too! can't wait to formulate my own recipe..



Posted 34 days ago.

Oginme
New Ipswich, NH
18 Posts


Very well written, Olan.  Good information, well presented!



Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.



Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Spot on about the yeast, it's very much style defining. Let's take the Bock grist you started with, use a Belgian yeast and it's a Dubbel, use French Ale yeast and it's a Bire de Garde (Ambre).

|
While some may consider it to be out of date - and I will admit that far too many styles are not included-

That one made me smile, maybe we have too many styles defined (Pale Ale = IPA = Bitter). ;)




Posted 34 days ago.

uberg33k
Charter Member
The Internet
314 Posts


I like the article, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say swapping the yeast in that recipe would transform it from a bock to a dubbel.  I mean, it could be pretty close, but I think you'd end up too sweet.  Sub out that crystal for some dark candi syrup and you might be onto a winner there.  I also didn't think Bire de Garde was that dark, but it's not really a style I'm as familiar with.



Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Technically correct, uberg33k, but ingoogni has a valid point, I think.



Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


Just for the fun of it, let's try:

The most basic Bock, 100% Muencher @OG 1065, 25 IBU FWH and noble hops.
The most basic Dubbel, 100% Muencher @OG 1065, 25 IBU FWH and noble hops.
The most basic Bire de Garde, 100% Muencher @OG 1065, 25 IBU FWH and noble hops.

If you'd do a split batch, the dubbel will be a bit malty, or the two others a bit thin

Well, you could probably even pull of a 'Strong Mild' with it, English yeast and EKG.

The result could be an interesting one to test on a certified judge :)








Posted 34 days ago.

uberg33k
Charter Member
The Internet
314 Posts


Now that would be an interesting experiment.



Posted 34 days ago.

homebrewdad
Charter Member
Birmingham, AL
2480 Posts


Crap.  Now I want to do something along these lines...



Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


| Now I want to do something along these lines...

get inspired, 100% Pils Malt:

Pilsner, Koelsch, Blonde, Bitter, (Petit)Brettanomyces Blonde*, Saison, Strong Berliner Weisse**, Enkel (Paters bier).
only the Berliner Weisse needs a different hopping, the others can be done with one bitterness and one small aroma addition. None of them will be best of class, but they will all fit in their classes.

This could also be done for Brown beers, how about an Alt recipe (94% Pils, 4,7% Cara 120EBC, 1,4% Carafra II), Irish Red aka Bitter? etc.

* Brett Blonde is not in the BJCP guide, but is defined in the Dutche style guide, think Orval like beers.

** Berliner Weisse has been made quite a lot without wheat, the Weisse (White) is not for the wheat but for very pale barley malt. Weisse is not equivalen for Weizen (wheat). Also the Berliner has been made at double and even triple strength.




Posted 34 days ago.

skunkfunk
OKC, OK
38 Posts


Alright, now I have to do this. I'm thinking Hoppy Saison Brett (belle saison and brett C), Bitter, and Pilsner all from the same wort. Could be a pain in the ass to temp control a bitter at the same time as a pils, though.

Although I'd rather add some rye from a separate mash to the ... crap, I'm wandering off track.




Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


@Olan,
Can you split the thread or move the whole to thread to "recipe discussions" with an addition to the title like "recipe development)

Regardless of styles, it's very insightful to take a recipe and use it with really different yeasts. Things I've learned from that is that Belgian yeast and Weizen yeast can be used with a lot higher bitterness levels than Belgians do, most do fine with an bitterness index of 0.6. Also they can be harmonious with a lot of hop aroma, now big C's isn't the first I would try, but the newer German hops like Smaragd, Monroe, Opal, Saphir, Herkules (nice for aroma), Mandrin etc. work very well.

Using a "neutral yeast" is the easy way out, you won't do anything wrong with it, true mastery imo is the targeted use of expressive yeasts.

OT (Or if you really want neutral, get W34/70 and ferment with it at 5°C (it works well down to 2°C). I did it once to put maximum emphasis on hops, used only Best malz Heidelberg, a very pale pilsner malt. Only a small portion of the beer has ever been above the 10°C, I used a little less ten a quarter of the beer to dry hop @18°C and then added it back to the main batch and cooled it. There was only hoppyness and aroma despite the beer not being bone dry.)




Posted 34 days ago.

skunkfunk
OKC, OK
38 Posts


Ingoogni, I've never tried w34/70 that low! Wow! Do you have a source? My next brew is a split batch between that and wlp 800 (pilsner and marzen.) I've been wondering how low I can set the chamber without freezing out one of the yeasts, has anybody tried going that low with the urquell strain?




Posted 34 days ago.

ingoogni
nl
314 Posts


In general, there is really no need to ferment that low, pitch cold and the 10-12°C is fine, let it rise one ~50% is done.

W34 is known for its Arctic abilities, don't know how other yeasts cope with it, they probably all keep metabolising very very slowly until frozen. There is a German home brewer who did the experiment and fermented a 30
Plato (OG 1131) beer with W34 @ 2°C. The yeast did its work without
problems and stopped when 12% Alcohol was reached.

German brewers made use of its abilities by slowly lowering the temperature to 0°C the further it got near the end and thus absorbing most the produced CO2. This made Krauesening or forced carbonation unnecessary, the latter not being  allowed by the Reinheitsgebot.






Posted 34 days ago.

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